I’m a big fan of EA philosophy and the people I’ve met through EA. But I think of EA as a philosophy/movement/personal practice, not a political party or a religion or any other thing that naturally seems to grant an “-ist” label.
While I’m sure I sometimes lapse into the “EAs” shorthand in conversation/casual commenting, I try to avoid it in everything I write for CEA, and I push (gently) to keep it out of things I edit/review for others.
My preference is to say “I try to practice effective altruism” or “I try to follow the principles of effective altruism” (more precise, but clunkier). There are things I associate with EA (trying to increase impact, being cause-neutral, weighting different sorts of beings equally, considering counterfactuals) that I try to do, but don’t always succeed at. That’s what defines an “EA” to me — goals and behaviors.
I’m a big fan of EA philosophy and the people I’ve met through EA. But I think of EA as a philosophy/movement/personal practice, not a political party or a religion or any other thing that naturally seems to grant an “-ist” label.
It seems weird to push back against these sentences, since they’re is about your personal perceptions and what you want to / feel comfortable identifying with. But these sentences seem a bit odd to me, because I think people do use “-ist” labels for many philosophies, movements, and personal practices, not just political parties or religions or things like that.
Some examples:
Deontologist
Virtue ethicist
Feminist
Pianist
Novelist
And I think “-ian” labels are basically equivalent (with the distinction between about what letters precede them or something like that, rather than something deeper). In which case, examples like utilitarian and vegetarian are also relevant.
Maybe your perceptions on this aren’t really driven by the “-ist” label alone, but by that label plus it being attached to the sort of community of people that seem more likely to form a shared identity, shared ideological blindspots, or similar than e.g. pianists or novelists would be?
You’ve drawn a good distinction here, and I should revise what I said before.
In my previous comment, I lazily copied the explanation I use to tell people they shouldn’t capitalize “effective altruism” (“it’s not a religion”). As you say, it doesn’t fit here.
The thing I don’t like about applying “-ist” labeling to EA is the addition of “effective”, which (as many others have said) seems to presume impact in a way that seems a bit arrogant and, more importantly, is really hard to prove.
Are you a pianist? Yes, you play the piano.
Are you a virtue ethicist? Yes, you believe that virtue ethics are correct (or whatever).
Are you an altruist? Yes, you give some of your resources to other people for reasons outside of law, contracts, etc.
Are you a great pianist? …maybe? What defines “great”?
Are you an effective altruist? …maybe? What defines “effective”? You might hold a bunch of ethical beliefs that lots of other people who use that label also hold, but it seems unclear exactly which set of beliefs is sufficient for the label to fit. (And even if we could settle on some canonical set, the word “effective” still seems presumptive in a way I don’t want to apply to individual people.)
If I recall correctly, this was not your position several years ago , when we talked about this more(circa 2015, 2016 or so). Which is not too surprising—I mean I sure hope I changed a lot in the intervening years!
But assuming my memory of this is correct, do you recall when you made this shift, and the core reasons for it? Interested if there’s a short/fast way to retrace your intellectual journey so that other people might make the relevant updates.
Interesting! I don’t remember what position I held years ago, but I assume this is about the name of the group we ran? I legitimately don’t remember whether it was “Epic Effective Altruism” or “Epic Effective Altruists”.
If it was the latter, I don’t think I had a strong view in favor of “altruists” — it just felt like the default name to use and I doubt I thought twice about it. (I’m pretty sure this is long before I ever read “EA is a question, not an ideology” or similar posts.)
The first time I saw someone express reservations about the term “effective altruist”, I imagine that would have shifted my position quickly, since I don’t think I had a strong prior either way. But if that’s also not what you remember… well, fill me in, because much of that time is a blur for me now :-P
I’m a big fan of EA philosophy and the people I’ve met through EA. But I think of EA as a philosophy/movement/personal practice, not a political party or a religion or any other thing that naturally seems to grant an “-ist” label.
While I’m sure I sometimes lapse into the “EAs” shorthand in conversation/casual commenting, I try to avoid it in everything I write for CEA, and I push (gently) to keep it out of things I edit/review for others.
My preference is to say “I try to practice effective altruism” or “I try to follow the principles of effective altruism” (more precise, but clunkier). There are things I associate with EA (trying to increase impact, being cause-neutral, weighting different sorts of beings equally, considering counterfactuals) that I try to do, but don’t always succeed at. That’s what defines an “EA” to me — goals and behaviors.
It seems weird to push back against these sentences, since they’re is about your personal perceptions and what you want to / feel comfortable identifying with. But these sentences seem a bit odd to me, because I think people do use “-ist” labels for many philosophies, movements, and personal practices, not just political parties or religions or things like that.
Some examples:
Deontologist
Virtue ethicist
Feminist
Pianist
Novelist
And I think “-ian” labels are basically equivalent (with the distinction between about what letters precede them or something like that, rather than something deeper). In which case, examples like utilitarian and vegetarian are also relevant.
Maybe your perceptions on this aren’t really driven by the “-ist” label alone, but by that label plus it being attached to the sort of community of people that seem more likely to form a shared identity, shared ideological blindspots, or similar than e.g. pianists or novelists would be?
You’ve drawn a good distinction here, and I should revise what I said before.
In my previous comment, I lazily copied the explanation I use to tell people they shouldn’t capitalize “effective altruism” (“it’s not a religion”). As you say, it doesn’t fit here.
The thing I don’t like about applying “-ist” labeling to EA is the addition of “effective”, which (as many others have said) seems to presume impact in a way that seems a bit arrogant and, more importantly, is really hard to prove.
Are you a pianist? Yes, you play the piano.
Are you a virtue ethicist? Yes, you believe that virtue ethics are correct (or whatever).
Are you an altruist? Yes, you give some of your resources to other people for reasons outside of law, contracts, etc.
Are you a great pianist? …maybe? What defines “great”?
Are you an effective altruist? …maybe? What defines “effective”? You might hold a bunch of ethical beliefs that lots of other people who use that label also hold, but it seems unclear exactly which set of beliefs is sufficient for the label to fit. (And even if we could settle on some canonical set, the word “effective” still seems presumptive in a way I don’t want to apply to individual people.)
If I recall correctly, this was not your position several years ago , when we talked about this more(circa 2015, 2016 or so). Which is not too surprising—I mean I sure hope I changed a lot in the intervening years!
But assuming my memory of this is correct, do you recall when you made this shift, and the core reasons for it? Interested if there’s a short/fast way to retrace your intellectual journey so that other people might make the relevant updates.
Interesting! I don’t remember what position I held years ago, but I assume this is about the name of the group we ran? I legitimately don’t remember whether it was “Epic Effective Altruism” or “Epic Effective Altruists”.
If it was the latter, I don’t think I had a strong view in favor of “altruists” — it just felt like the default name to use and I doubt I thought twice about it. (I’m pretty sure this is long before I ever read “EA is a question, not an ideology” or similar posts.)
The first time I saw someone express reservations about the term “effective altruist”, I imagine that would have shifted my position quickly, since I don’t think I had a strong prior either way. But if that’s also not what you remember… well, fill me in, because much of that time is a blur for me now :-P
(In case anyone reads Aaron’s comment and is unfamiliar with that post, here’s the link.)