I don’t understand what the title has to do with the body of the text. ‘Meme’ either means a unit of cultural information or a funny picture with text; EA is definitely not ‘just’ the latter, and it is the former to the same extent that environmentalism or any other movement is.
It’s probably to do with the fact that being in finance (banker, consultant, whatever) is pretty much something any jackass can do. Pushing money around, dealing with people, risk assessment, you can pretty much just turn your brain off really, especially compared to technical fields. But banking is not only not a very useful job, it’s also incredibly morally dubious to work for companies that do fuck all for the world aside from scam customers and invest the money in fossil fuel industries and terrorist organizations. Like OK, yeah, better you have the job than some schmuck who wouldn’t donate anything and would spend the money on cars and luxury homes, but there are other jobs you can get that are not only useful, but comparative in their income.
This is probably the single most ignorant paragraph I have ever read about the financial industry.[1] The sort of finance job EAs do for EtG are not easy, they are some of the most competitive and challenging jobs in the world. Nor is it the case that scamming, fossil fuel investment and investing in terrorist organizations (how would that even work? Does Al-Qaeda pay dividends?) is all they do. This guy is apparently aware that financial companies invest in fossil fuel companies—does he think there is some other industry that handles investment in all other types of firms, including green infrastructure? Finance plays a number of important roles in society, from facilitating transactions to matching savers and borrowers to allowing people to adjust their risk to vetting and due diligence to forecasting the future. These are valuable services and people voluntarily pay to use them. There are some valid criticisms of the industry but this guy is just so ill-informed I seriously think your “”friend”″ should start by reading a basic wikipedia article on the subject.
… and medicine and STEM are only comparable in income to the extent that you can compare them and observe them to be lower.
His response is so uncharitable and demeaning I’m not sure it’s worth Larks’ time and effort to respond. For instance:
I don’t understand what the title has to do with the body of the text. ‘Meme’ either means a unit of cultural information or a funny picture with text; EA is definitely not ‘just’ the latter, and it is the former to the same extent that environmentalism or any other movement is.
I can say these sentences certainly are memes.
That’s the entirety of his response to what Larks pointed out, a confusion I share.
There are many great criticisms-of-EA writeups on the forum; here are some from the criticism of EA tag which I’ve personally appreciated:
His response is so uncharitable and demeaning I’m not sure it’s worth Larks’ time and effort to respond.
That’s just Red’s mannerisms, he’s just saying it because he likes being humorous. He’s a pretty nice guy, though if he were writing this response right now it’d be a lot more smartassy.
That’s the entirety of his response to what Larks pointed out, a confusion I share.
Well he did address (most) of his arguments, despite his memey attitude. I don’t think being a bit of a dick negates any arguments he made.
He requested I copy and paste his reponse here to make sure you and others see it.
Larks wrote:I don’t understand what the title has to do with the body of the text. ‘Meme’ either means a unit of cultural information or a funny picture with text; EA is definitely not ‘just’ the latter, and it is the former to the same extent that environmentalism or any other movement is.
I can say these sentences certainly are memes.
Larks wrote:This is probably the single most ignorant paragraph I have ever read about the financial industry. The sort of finance job EAs do for EtG are not easy, they are some of the most competitive and challenging jobs in the world.
OK
Larks wrote:Nor is it the case that scamming, fossil fuel investment and investing in terrorist organizations (how would that even work? Does Al-Qaeda pay dividends?) is all they do.
I mean that’s kinda what the biggest banks in the world do. Every major multinational bank on the planet is riddled with scandals and controversies.
Larks wrote:This guy is apparently aware that financial companies invest in fossil fuel companies—does he think there is some other industry that handles investment in all other types of firms, including green infrastructure?
I’m sure they do, but where’s the money in that right now? Very little compared to the fossil fuel industries. This will likely change in the future, but that will be the result of legislation and general systemic change, not likely to be from working at such companies.
Larks wrote:Finance plays a number of important roles in society, from facilitating transactions to matching savers and borrowers to allowing people to adjust their risk to vetting and due diligence to forecasting the future.
Of course banks are important, I was more referring to working a job that deals mostly with the scumbags. But while they are important, even putting aside the shady stuff, working in one mostly just makes you a middle-man; Hard to say if someone of fair intelligence and ability is necessarily reaching their potential working such a job.
Larks wrote:These are valuable services and people voluntarily pay to use them.
I’m not sure if you read my whole post because I mentioned encouraging people to use local banks, which will likely act more ethically. Might not be possible for everyone, but it is for a lot of people who do use these banks. The less power they have, the better.
And really it’s probably beneficial to the customers too since from what I can tell these big banks give their customers little interest, charge them a fee for using the bank, then invest in other evil industries.
Larks wrote:There are some valid criticisms of the industry but this guy is just so ill-informed I seriously think your “”friend”″ should start by reading a basic wikipedia article on the subject.
I think you’re just mad
Larks wrote:… and medicine and STEM are only comparable in income to the extent that you can compare them and observe them to be lower.
Still both in the six figures range, and plenty of room for increasing income. I am wondering, do you support more STEM and Medicine people? I would argue that any extra money made by someone in finance is far offset by a STEM/Medicine person since their careers contribute very positively in the world and working at a big bank is not so good.
Frankly the fact that the people working in finance make so much money is a cause for concern and shouldn’t be a reality at all, at least with how they’re currently getting their money.
I don’t understand what the title has to do with the body of the text. ‘Meme’ either means a unit of cultural information or a funny picture with text; EA is definitely not ‘just’ the latter, and it is the former to the same extent that environmentalism or any other movement is.
This is probably the single most ignorant paragraph I have ever read about the financial industry.[1] The sort of finance job EAs do for EtG are not easy, they are some of the most competitive and challenging jobs in the world. Nor is it the case that scamming, fossil fuel investment and investing in terrorist organizations (how would that even work? Does Al-Qaeda pay dividends?) is all they do. This guy is apparently aware that financial companies invest in fossil fuel companies—does he think there is some other industry that handles investment in all other types of firms, including green infrastructure? Finance plays a number of important roles in society, from facilitating transactions to matching savers and borrowers to allowing people to adjust their risk to vetting and due diligence to forecasting the future. These are valuable services and people voluntarily pay to use them. There are some valid criticisms of the industry but this guy is just so ill-informed I seriously think your “”friend”″ should start by reading a basic wikipedia article on the subject.
… and medicine and STEM are only comparable in income to the extent that you can compare them and observe them to be lower.
Or possibly the management consulting industry? Who knows, not the author, that’s for sure.
He wrote a response on his forum:
https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?p=52461#p52461
Do you agree with the rest of his post?
His response is so uncharitable and demeaning I’m not sure it’s worth Larks’ time and effort to respond. For instance:
That’s the entirety of his response to what Larks pointed out, a confusion I share.
There are many great criticisms-of-EA writeups on the forum; here are some from the criticism of EA tag which I’ve personally appreciated:
Objections to Value-Alignment between Effective Altruists
Effective altruism’s odd attitude to mental health
My highly personal skepticism braindump on existential risk from artificial intelligence
The motivated reasoning critique of effective altruism
Critique of the notion that impact follows a power-law distribution
On a more meta level, your friend might sharpen his critiques by reading e.g. Critiques of EA that I want to read and Motivation gaps: Why so much EA criticism is hostile and lazy (the latter written by an EA skeptic by the way), but given his lack of charity I’m not optimistic on this front.
That’s just Red’s mannerisms, he’s just saying it because he likes being humorous. He’s a pretty nice guy, though if he were writing this response right now it’d be a lot more smartassy.
Well he did address (most) of his arguments, despite his memey attitude. I don’t think being a bit of a dick negates any arguments he made.
What do you think of his original post?
He requested I copy and paste his reponse here to make sure you and others see it.
I can say these sentences certainly are memes.
OK
I mean that’s kinda what the biggest banks in the world do. Every major multinational bank on the planet is riddled with scandals and controversies.
Also regarding terrorist organizations:
https://www.nbcnews.com/businessmain/re … ugs-889170
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/stand … s-4339bfd0
I’m sure they do, but where’s the money in that right now? Very little compared to the fossil fuel industries. This will likely change in the future, but that will be the result of legislation and general systemic change, not likely to be from working at such companies.
Of course banks are important, I was more referring to working a job that deals mostly with the scumbags. But while they are important, even putting aside the shady stuff, working in one mostly just makes you a middle-man; Hard to say if someone of fair intelligence and ability is necessarily reaching their potential working such a job.
I’m not sure if you read my whole post because I mentioned encouraging people to use local banks, which will likely act more ethically. Might not be possible for everyone, but it is for a lot of people who do use these banks. The less power they have, the better.
And really it’s probably beneficial to the customers too since from what I can tell these big banks give their customers little interest, charge them a fee for using the bank, then invest in other evil industries.
I think you’re just mad
Still both in the six figures range, and plenty of room for increasing income. I am wondering, do you support more STEM and Medicine people? I would argue that any extra money made by someone in finance is far offset by a STEM/Medicine person since their careers contribute very positively in the world and working at a big bank is not so good.
Frankly the fact that the people working in finance make so much money is a cause for concern and shouldn’t be a reality at all, at least with how they’re currently getting their money.