They do lots of workshops on international security. Their events cost around £54,000 for two nights.
(see page 14 of their Annual Report: “In 2020⁄21, we delivered 128 (76 in 2019⁄20) events at average net revenue of £13k (£54k in 2019⁄20). The lower average net revenue this year was due to the reduced income generated from virtual events compared to that generated by face to face events in 2019⁄20. Virtual events are shorter, generally lasting half a day, compared to face to face events which are generally for two nights.”)
West Court, Jesus College, Cambridge
I’ve been to several academic workshops and conferences here. Their prices are, for a 24 hour (overnight) rate:
West Court single ensuite
from £205
Let’s say 100 attendees overnight for 3 days (a weekend workshop) in the cheapest rooms: £200*100*3 = £60,000.
50 events (one a week) like these a year would cost £3m (£60,000*50=£3,000,000). So break even (assuming £15m was the actual cost) in 5 years—quicker if they paid less, which seems likely.
No idea if this is a good use of money, just sharing some information for context.
This break even analysis would be more appropriate if the £15m had been ~burned, rather than invested in an asset which can be sold.
If I buy a house for £100k cash and it saves me £10k/year in rent (net costs), then after 10 years I’ve broken even in the sense of [cash out]=[cash in], but I also now have an asset worth £100k (+10y price change), so I’m doing much better than ‘even’.
Agreed.. a good way to think about this is that since you get ~5% annual returns on stocks, annual rent equivalent is ~5% of the property value, and so the opportunity cost is spending ~$750k/y or $62.5k per month on conference accommodation.
I imagine the event costs above include the costs for staff (including janitorial etc.) and food, as well as the upkeep of the properties, which is not included in the ~15M figure and I imagine would be considerable, particularly considering the historical value of the Abbey, meaning the break even point would be farther away than 5 years, although it’s hard to say how far without more information
Yeah the breakeven point is a super rough figure, originally wasn’t going to include it. Paying for staff and food would push out, more events or hiring out for events would bring closer, etc. Main thing I wanted to add to the conversation is a sense of how expensive workshops and retreats are.
Wilton Park and West Court are both historic, so thought they’d be good comparisons (and ones I know).
Your analasis ignores that the prices you quote contain a lot more than the pure real estate costs, but also running costs, that Wytham Abbey of course would also have to incure, such as:
Mainenance, renovations, etc (this can be quite a lot for an old and listed building)
Utilities, etc. (Again, this is a large old space not built to modern standards and this is probably quite high)
Costs for IT equipment that needs to be regularly replaced, furniture that needs to be replace ocasionally, any kind of office supplies etc provided
Council tax
Costs for cleaning, etc
Costs for staff managing the space
(Potentially, not sure if the prices you quote include this or not) catering and other services provided
I probably forgot something.
Also I doubt that the organisations that run these venues occur a lot of profit, so the total costs they charge are probably mainly the things above plus some capital costs for the building plus costs for the time the building is not occupied.
Just for context on event costs
Wilton Park
They do lots of workshops on international security. Their events cost around £54,000 for two nights.
(see page 14 of their Annual Report: “In 2020⁄21, we delivered 128 (76 in 2019⁄20) events at average net revenue of £13k (£54k in 2019⁄20). The lower average net revenue this year was due to the reduced income generated from virtual events compared to that generated by face to face events in 2019⁄20. Virtual events are shorter, generally lasting half a day, compared to face to face events which are generally for two nights.”)
West Court, Jesus College, Cambridge
I’ve been to several academic workshops and conferences here. Their prices are, for a 24 hour (overnight) rate:
Let’s say 100 attendees overnight for 3 days (a weekend workshop) in the cheapest rooms: £200*100*3 = £60,000.
Shakeel offers the further examples of “traditional specialist conference centres, e.g. Oberwolfach, The Rockefeller Foundation Bellagio Center or the Brocher Foundation.”
50 events (one a week) like these a year would cost £3m (£60,000*50=£3,000,000). So break even (assuming £15m was the actual cost) in 5 years—quicker if they paid less, which seems likely.
No idea if this is a good use of money, just sharing some information for context.
This break even analysis would be more appropriate if the £15m had been ~burned, rather than invested in an asset which can be sold.
If I buy a house for £100k cash and it saves me £10k/year in rent (net costs), then after 10 years I’ve broken even in the sense of [cash out]=[cash in], but I also now have an asset worth £100k (+10y price change), so I’m doing much better than ‘even’.
Agreed.. a good way to think about this is that since you get ~5% annual returns on stocks, annual rent equivalent is ~5% of the property value, and so the opportunity cost is spending ~$750k/y or $62.5k per month on conference accommodation.
I agree
I imagine the event costs above include the costs for staff (including janitorial etc.) and food, as well as the upkeep of the properties, which is not included in the ~15M figure and I imagine would be considerable, particularly considering the historical value of the Abbey, meaning the break even point would be farther away than 5 years, although it’s hard to say how far without more information
Yeah the breakeven point is a super rough figure, originally wasn’t going to include it. Paying for staff and food would push out, more events or hiring out for events would bring closer, etc. Main thing I wanted to add to the conversation is a sense of how expensive workshops and retreats are.
Wilton Park and West Court are both historic, so thought they’d be good comparisons (and ones I know).
Your analasis ignores that the prices you quote contain a lot more than the pure real estate costs, but also running costs, that Wytham Abbey of course would also have to incure, such as:
Mainenance, renovations, etc (this can be quite a lot for an old and listed building)
Utilities, etc. (Again, this is a large old space not built to modern standards and this is probably quite high)
Costs for IT equipment that needs to be regularly replaced, furniture that needs to be replace ocasionally, any kind of office supplies etc provided
Council tax
Costs for cleaning, etc
Costs for staff managing the space
(Potentially, not sure if the prices you quote include this or not) catering and other services provided
I probably forgot something.
Also I doubt that the organisations that run these venues occur a lot of profit, so the total costs they charge are probably mainly the things above plus some capital costs for the building plus costs for the time the building is not occupied.