Patrick Gruban

Karma: 1,515

Entrepreneur (currently textiles, previously software) for 25+ years and interested in EA since 2015, joining the local group and donating. I joined the EA Munich organiser team and took the GWWC pledge in 2020, developed the software for the new donation management system Effektiv Spenden is using in Germany and Switzerland in 2021 and have been co-director of EA Germany since November 2022.

I run the donation drive Knitters Against Malaria, which has raised over $100,000 for the Against Malaria Foundation since 2018.

Patrick Gruban 28 Apr 2024 5:36 UTC
5 points
3 ∶ 0
on: 10 Lessons Learned—One Year at EA Switzerland
Thank you for writing this! Many of the points, especially 1-5, overlap with my experience. “It’s crazy how low the bar can be for people to feel empowered.” was and still is a surprise to me.

Patrick Gruban 4 Apr 2024 10:20 UTC
8 points
0 ∶ 0
on: Should EA ‘communities’ be ‘professional associations’?
EA Germany is a membership association with about 100 members that elect the board that oversees the work of our team. However, there is no membership fee, and our programs are available to anyone, regardless of the membership. We have minimum levels of engagement and an interview for new members to ensure that people have enough context. I think this level of oversight encourages transparency and member engagement, although it probably does not change much of what we do.
In terms of naming, I think many different words are used for EA (e.g. CEA’s website uses the term “global network”), and it probably depends on local contexts and how they are understood. Personally, I’m more interested in how we can ensure professionalism in our actions and showcase the behaviour we want to see than in the label.

Patrick Gruban 4 Apr 2024 9:53 UTC
19 points
2 ∶ 0
on: Quick Update on Leaving the Board of EV
@Rebecca Kagan I’ve sent you a message and think it could be valuable for me and perhaps other new EV board members to get more information from you in order to learn and avoid mistakes. I’d be happy to take you up on your offer for discussion.

Patrick Gruban 3 Apr 2024 18:31 UTC
34 points
3 ∶ 0
on: Patrick Gruban has joined the EV UK board
Please have a low bar for reaching out to me (patrick.gruban@effektiveraltruismus.de or via the forum) if you think there are things the board should be aware of or that EV’s organisations might be missing out on. The actions and inactions of the EV boards, as well as executives of EV and the housed projects, can affect many stakeholders, including employees, volunteers, grantees, funders, contractors, and the many beneficiaries of the projects. I want to make sure that we can take these into account.

Patrick Gruban 3 Feb 2024 16:48 UTC
3 points
0 ∶ 0
on: A simple and generic framework for impact estimation and attribution
Thank you, this was a very interesting read! While I didn’t have time to think through all of it, the idea of adjusting the impact of salaries and profits by bands that are income-adjusted seems intuitively right. If I can choose a job with the same salary in the same industry where one employer mainly sells to people with lower income while the other sells to people with higher income, I should have a higher WELLBY impact at first.
As a side anecdote: When I was selling the consumer product of my company at a market stand, the customers who told me they had been saving up for their $100 purchase seemed much more excited about the product and seemed to be more loyal fans. Given that they were spending a larger share of their income on the product, it seems reasonable to assume that they valued the product more on average and attributed a larger WELLBY share to it.

Patrick Gruban 22 Jan 2024 7:22 UTC
15 points
1 ∶ 0
on: When Does Altruism Strengthen Altruism?
I like the analogy of creating muscle strength, where additional weight can create more muscles in some circumstances and injuries in others. I fear, however, that people might interpret this too narrowly, only looking at short-term altruistic actions and not a longer-term goal. When thinking about change, it’s easy to get focused either on too many things or changes that are less relevant, leaving little capacity for bigger changes. Peter Wildeford’s template for a quarterly review + plan discusses this using the rock, pebbles, sand analogy.
For some people, additional altruistic actions might be the most important thing now, but I think for many, it will be focusing on their careers, building skills or getting better at thinking about prioritizing where they want to be headed in their careers.
A community that encourages people to take more altruistic actions might lead people to wrongly prioritize, leading to less effective outcomes in the long run. While much comes down to individuals making their own decisions, it is harder to be part of a group where many people show signs of small altruistic actions when you’re not doing this and are focussing on your career. I think what I’m feeling is a fear of an altruistic virtue-signalling competition that is used as a proxy for what we actually want: Steadily increasing our individual impact.
Personally, I think other virtues might be more helpful for building up the strength needed, as I recently wrote. Similarly, I expect others also to have different ways to impact. I think the combination of having a personal vision of being a person who will strongly value personal impact in combination with a growth and prioritization mindset who is strengthening their muscles in these areas could be a more general approach.

Patrick Gruban 20 Jan 2024 12:09 UTC
9 points
0 ∶ 0
on: Patrick Gruban’s Quick takes
Commitments for Excited Altruists
I recently read the book The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership, which I stumbled upon in Ben Todd’s Personal annual review process in the section ”What I found most useful in designing this doc”. Written by management consultants whose endorsements include one by Dustin Moskovitz, it is a self-help book for leaders interested in personal growth.
While the approach has the usual downside of this genre in relying on stories instead of evidence and trying to fit messy things into neat lists, I found it helpful in shaping my thinking. I also think there is an overlap with viewpoints we often see in the EA movement and not only by people in leadership positions.
The book starts with the premise that there are different states of mind in which we operate, focusing on the most common ones: “to me” and “by me”. The “to me” approach is a passive viewpoint where people blame others or themselves, are reactive, and have fixed beliefs. The book is for people who want to move to a “by me” mode of taking radical responsibility for their circumstances in life, being open to new information and feelings and living from a sense of having enough in life.
The book has vibes of Californian startup culture, focussing on complete self-sufficiency while incorporating mindfulness and communicating about feelings. At one point, they describe a meeting of an investment firm where team members vocalise their upcoming feelings nonverbally before moving on to making decisions. This may be too much woo for some. However, the approach is similar to what people in the rationalist community have been writing about. If we know ourselves better and are curious about not only our thoughts but all our experiences, then we can get better at working with this to be better at what we’re doing.
The 15 commitments the authors come up with, lists the “by me” modes to be aimed at and the “to me” states many people operate under. The EA principles of open truth-seeking and collaborative spirit are reflected in the commitments of curiosity, candor, gossip, integrity, genius, “opposite of my story”, allies, win for all. Someone subscribing to these commitments will probably integrate well into an EA-aligned organisation.
The EA community is sometimes described as a do-ocracy, with people starting what is missing, giving the movement a somewhat decentralised approach. This mindset is reflected in the commitments of responsibility and “being the resolution”.
For altruistic-minded people, the commitment to enough will help with increasing donations, while the commitment to “play and rest” is a way to maximise energy.
Combining the commitments the book describes with an altruistic mindset speaks to me. I’m intuitively drawn more to the values described there than to live a life of altruistic actions (something I wrote about here). I have the feeling that I can become more impactful by applying my willpower to adhering to the commitments than, for example, becoming an organ donor or going vegan.
It may come down to the seeming dichotomy of excited vs. obligatory altruism, where the book offers a way of acting out of a feeling of curiosity and abundance and having a fun and holistic approach to life, instead of a moral obligation that requires maximising impact. It may be helpful in day-to-day life to have some principles to guide actions, and some of the ones from the book seem useful to me in growing while being in a mindset of exited altruism.
If you want to learn more about the book, here is a summary and here a breakdown by chapters.
What links here?
- Patrick Gruban's comment on When Does Altruism Strengthen Altruism? by Jeff Kaufman (22 Jan 2024 7:22 UTC; 15 points)

Patrick Gruban 13 Jan 2024 11:38 UTC
19 points
5 ∶ 2
on: Patrick Gruban’s Quick takes
Heroes vs. Antiheroes in EA
“Name a person that inspires you” was an Icebreaker question that recently came up in a group setting. Somebody named a person in the EA community who is showcasing a lot of altruistic qualities like working long hours in their EA-aligned job while being frugal, donating a lot, being vegan etc.. I noticed that I strongly felt resistance to this and, on reflection, saw that I admire this altruistic person a lot while not being at all inspired by them at the same time. On the contrary, I feel like a failure as I can’t imagine myself ever living up to these ideals, although I would like to do so.
Before meeting any people in the EA community outside my small local group, my views of engaged people were formed by reading EA forum posts and other writings. Through these, my impression was of a community of near-heroes that were interesting but that I would never be able to be part of. Only when I went to the first EAG conference did I meet people who excelled in some part of their activities, but they also told me about where they failed and where the needs in the community were. This was the first time that I saw that I could contribute directly.
Since then, I’ve become wary of communications that highlight the importance of many altruistic actions in the community. While I see that this can be inspiring for some people, I personally have felt and still feel the pressure of expectation from this way of communicating. It is not that I disagree. It is that I start comparing myself to an ideal and contrast it with my personal daily failings in not being the perfect being I would like to be.
So while for some people, a hero with moral clarity and the willpower to work according to their principles is inspiring, for me, it’s more the antihero I can relate to. A person who is unsure, flawed, and very human but still has the ability to reflect, grow and do some good in the world. An example could be Nausea by Jean-Paul Sartre, where the protagonist experiences the meaninglessness of reality before seeing the possibilities and freedom to change. In the EA community, the 80k podcast episode on Having a successful career with anxiety, depression, and imposter syndrome would be an example, although I had more private conversations with people who shared their struggles that resonated even more.
In the opening talk of EAGxBerlin, I tried sharing my own struggles and received some positive feedback. However, I’ve been worrying if I’ve been humble bragging.
The conclusion is that what is inspiring for some could be off-putting for others and that communicating about different kinds of altruistic approaches could be helpful in reaching a broad audience of people who could decide to dedicate more of their resources to altruistic actions.
What links here?
- Patrick Gruban's comment on Patrick Gruban’s Quick takes by Patrick Gruban (20 Jan 2024 12:09 UTC; 9 points)

Patrick Gruban 13 Jan 2024 9:33 UTC
12 points
3 ∶ 0
in reply to: Owen Cotton-Barratt’s comment on: Cause-Generality Is Hard If Some Causes Have Higher ROI
I agree. A funder interested in career changes in one cause area will probably only reach a subset of potential talent if they only target people who are already interested in this cause area vs. generally capable individuals who could choose directions.
In the business context, you could imagine a recruiter having the option to buy a booth at a university specialising in the area the company is working in vs. buying one at a broad career fair of a top university. While the specialised university may bring more people that have trained in and are specialised in your area, you might still go for the top university as talent there might have overall greater potential, has the ability to more easily pivot or can contribute in more general areas like leadership, entrepreneurship, communications or similar.
One aspect here is also the timeframe you’re looking at. If we think of EA community building as talent development, and we’re working with people who might have many years until they peak in their careers, then focussing on a specific cause area might be limiting. A funder who is interested in job changes in one cause area now can still see the value of a pipeline of generally capable people skilling up in different areas of expertise before being a good fit for a new role. The Open Phil EA/LT Survey touches on this, and similarly, Holden’s post on career choices for longtermists also covers broader skills independent of cause area.

Patrick Gruban 19 Dec 2023 17:36 UTC
30 points
5 ∶ 0
on: Patrick Gruban’s Quick takes
The time of year when people start wishing each other happy holidays can be challenging for some. At least for me, the contrast between the joyous expectation from the outside and the inner feeling of dread feels especially big and can lead to a sense of solitude. I would like to tell people in the community: “It’s OK to Have Unhappy Holidays”. We’re in this together with many facing challenges like:
- Solitude: For those who are alone, the emphasis on family and companionship during the holidays can intensify feelings of isolation.
- Family Dynamics: The loss of parents, whether due to death or estrangement, leaves a void that the holidays can painfully magnify. Similarly, being far from family due to distance or other constraints can evoke a sense of disconnection.
- Disruption of Routine: The holiday season often disrupts daily routines. For some, this break from normalcy can be unsettling.
- Missing Friends: Being away from friends or unable to connect during this time can also contribute to feelings of loneliness.
- Pressure of Expectations: The societal pressure to exchange gifts and prepare lavish meals can be overwhelming, especially for those facing financial or personal challenges.
- Family Conflicts: Familial tensions or arguments, often swept under the rug, can resurface during gatherings, leading to discomfort and stress.
- Grieving for Lost Loved Ones: For those mourning the loss of relatives, the festive season can be a poignant reminder of their absence.
- Challenges of Donations: Deciding where and how much to donate can be stressful, compounded by the expectation to communicate these actions to others
- Year-End Reflection: The end of the year prompts reflection, which can bring feelings of failure or unmet goals into sharp focus.
- Seasonal Affectivity: The dark, cold winter days can exacerbate feelings of depression or sadness, a phenomenon known as Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD).
- Guilt: Guilt can arise from various sources, such as not being able to visit parents or relatives, knowing friends who are grieving or celebrating while others are suffering.
- Global Context: Awareness of suffering and global risks can cast a shadow over the festive spirit, making it hard to feel joyous.
- Comparative Unhappiness: Observing others seemingly happy can lead to feelings of inadequacy or the false belief that one must feel joyful.
It can already help to know that we are not alone in these struggles. And it can help to acknowledge that it’s ok to sometimes feel unhappy. But there are also some other things that might help:
- Create New Traditions: If old traditions bring sadness, consider creating new ones that better reflect your current situation.
- Connect Virtually: If you’re far from family or friends, use technology to connect. Video calls or online games can help bridge the distance. Sometimes it just helps to reach out.
- Reach out to Others: Sometimes friends and acquaintances are going through similar situations and would be happy for you to connect.
- Focus on Self-Care: Engage in activities that bring you comfort and joy, whether it’s reading, a hobby, or a relaxing bath.
- Limit Social Media: If seeing others’ holiday experiences makes you feel inadequate, take a break from social media.
- Seek Support: Don’t hesitate to reach out to friends, support groups, or mental health professionals for support.
- Exercise and Outdoor Activities: Physical activity, especially outdoors, can improve mood and alleviate symptoms of SAD.
- Practice Gratitude: Focus on what you are thankful for, even small things, which can shift your perspective.
- Set Boundaries: It’s okay to say no to events or situations that you know will be stressful or upsetting.
- Journaling: Writing down your thoughts and feelings can be a therapeutic way to process emotions.
- Embrace Solitude: If you’re alone, use this time for personal growth or activities you enjoy but usually don’t have time for.
- Plan Ahead for Difficult Dates: If certain dates are particularly hard, plan activities for those days that you know will be comforting or distracting.
- Meditation and Relaxation Techniques: Practices like meditation, yoga, or deep breathing can help manage stress and anxiety.
Sharing your thoughts and experiences in the comments might help others that they are not the only ones struggling.

Patrick Gruban 11 Dec 2023 21:39 UTC
15 points
11 ∶ 0
on: I spent a lot of time and money on one dog. Do I need help?
Thanks for sharing! My intuition would be that the behavior of your friends are net negative for the EA movement as they risk demotivating you in your work and making it seeming like EA has standards that many people don’t want to follow. It took me some years to grasp the bandwidth of attitudes and behaviors that are compatible with adhering to the shared values and this delayed my switching to direct work. In that sense I would agree with the parallel you drew from the vegan community. That being said I feel myself self-censoring more what I post online since becoming more active, as I am aware of being judged by some people in and out of the community. I’m not sure if this is a good thing.

Patrick Gruban 11 Dec 2023 8:52 UTC
10 points
0 ∶ 0
in reply to: James Özden’s comment on: EA Germany’s 2023 Report, 2024 Plans & Funding Gap
As Effektiv Spenden is active in the field of effective donations from small-scale donors to high-networth individuals in Germany, we see our advantage mainly in helping people get into more impactful careers. For these, we broadly see the top skills and high-impact career paths 80,000 hours have identified as good guidance. We think that career impact has a heavy-tailed distribution, with most of the impact EAD will have coming from supporting a few individuals.
One important consideration is whether EAD can contribute to reducing AI x-risk. One credible worldview sees the development of transformative AI within years as likely, making the AI alignment a field that needs experienced talent very soon. Under this worldview, it seems most important to reach professionals who can be convinced to work on this problem now.
Continuing to reach out to students and people earlier in their careers to think about cause prioritisation seems more important in the worldview of longer timelines to transformative AI or if EA can contribute less to the field than in previous years. We think both worldviews are credible enough to contribute resources to them.

Patrick Gruban 7 Dec 2023 2:56 UTC
37 points
8 ∶ 0
on: EA thoughts from Israel-Hamas war
Thank you for writing and publishing this here, Ezra!
As I already wrote to you in another channel, first of all, I want to say that I’ve been thinking of all of you I know in the EA Israel team since the terrorist attacks and you and your family after I heard that you were called up to the army reserves. I can’t image what you have been going through. The piece at least gives a glimpse, which I found very valuable to read.
The piece reminds me of You have more than one goal, and that’s fine in the sense that the acute situation of war, of fearing for the lives of loved ones, is a different bucket to the peacetime situation of impartial altruism.
A formative experience for me was being part of a student exchange in high school with Israel. Most of our group of Germans lived with Israeli families while I was at a Palestinian’s house. I was able to spend time with Israelis and Palestinians and hear stories of violence and trauma. Since then, I’ve been very sceptical of outsiders trying to weigh in on the conflict, especially one-sided and simplistic statements. I like how you phrased it: “Most of those people have no idea what’s going on, and may be acting against the best interest of the people they claim to care about.”

Patrick Gruban 17 Nov 2023 5:33 UTC
2 points
0 ∶ 0
in reply to: calebp’s comment on: calebp’s Shortform
Concerning 2 I think from an organization’s perspective it might be even helpful to have a salary agreed with you that makes it easier to replace you and so calculate a realistic runway for the organization.Then you can still voluntarily reduce the salary and claim it as donation. This is what I’m doing and it helps with my own budgeting and with that of my org. I was inspired by this post: https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/GxRcKACcJuLBEJPmE/consider-earning-less

Patrick Gruban 12 Sep 2023 15:28 UTC
25 points
8 ∶ 0
in reply to: James Herbert’s comment on: Announcing the Meta Coordination Forum 2023
Seeing the other replies, it seems the specific experience of running a national EA organisation is not specifically represented, although, in our (EA Germany) case, Anne Schulze is part of the community. Bigger EA organisations like ours (>100 members, supporting 27 local/uni groups, providing fiscal sponsorship/employer of record services, having a community health contact, etc.) might bring an additional perspective.
However, I see that having a representative for each sub-group would make for a big forum and that it’s okay to have people who represent multiple perspectives.
What links here?
- Rockwell's comment on Announcing the Meta Coordination Forum 2023 by Sophie Thomson (12 Sep 2023 17:44 UTC; 50 points)

Patrick Gruban 22 Aug 2023 16:56 UTC
2 points
0 ∶ 0
on: Picnic at Englischer Garten
We’re here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/nm6CxEdjFQJmH3XK9

Patrick Gruban 16 Aug 2023 5:26 UTC
9 points
4 ∶ 0
in reply to: Austin’s comment on: Ozzie Gooen’s Shortform
After transitioning from for-profit entrepreneurship to co-leading a non-profit in the effective altruism space, I struggle to identify clear metrics to optimize for. Funding is a potential metric, but it is unreliable due to fluctuations in donors’ interests. The success of individual programs, such as user engagement with free products or services, may not accurately reflect their impact compared to other potential initiatives. Furthermore, creating something impressive doesn’t necessarily mean it’s useful.
Lacking a solid impact evaluation model, I find myself defaulting to measuring success by hours worked, despite recognizing the diminishing returns and increased burnout risk this approach entails.

Patrick Gruban 16 Aug 2023 5:12 UTC
4 points
1 ∶ 0
in reply to: Ozzie Gooen’s comment on: Ozzie Gooen’s Shortform
Thank you, this very much resonates with me

Patrick Gruban 14 Aug 2023 4:49 UTC
8 points
3 ∶ 0
on: EA Poland 2023 – the first update
Thank you for writing this up, I’m happy to see so much going on in Poland and was impressed when I visited EAGxWarsaw and talked to active members there.

Patrick Gruban 13 Jul 2023 20:53 UTC
12 points
3 ∶ 0
on: Consider Earning Less
Thank you for the inspiration! I reduced my salary from now to the end of the year and will be able to contribute a mid-four-figure amount more due to saved social security costs compared to donating it. Additionally, it helps save taxes as only 20% of salary is tax-deductible in Germany.
This post was pretty impactful!