This makes sense, thanks for the response! :)
Ben Stevenson
Karma: 532
Aquaculture in space
I don’t think this affects the outcome of the case but is import ant for other reasons.
Hey! Thanks for your efforts and for the post-mortem.
Why did you prioritise these two asks out of the inquiry’s 18 recommendations? (Some prioritisation makes sense, but it’s not obvious to me why these specifically).
And why do you feel “the marginal return from the final few participants was probably quite low”? (It makes sense to met that you hit marginal diminishing returns at some point, but it’s not clear to me how many volunteers it takes to get there, and it probably makes more sense to me to think about it in terms of number of MPs contacted).
Interesting reporting, thanks Garrison! Globally, the general public would, I suspect, be much more sympathetic to a case brought by an AG than by Musk. Of course, within Americans there’s a risk of partisan polarisation.
Dorff cites the example of The March of Dimes. The anti-polio foundation was able to legally shift its mission after the disease was effectively eradicated
Tangentially, I’d be interested in a case study about why this group decided to continue and how they decided on what they’d pivot to.
Hey Keyvan, thanks for sharing these thoughts. I’m reminded of Kirsty’s reflections on stepping aside from her role at Anima because she thought that was the best decision for the animals; I really admire a culture that embraces humility, changing your mind, and staying focused on the animals.
Hey Vasco! This is a formatting glitch, which we’ll fix, but there’s no missing content :)
Great victory from THL UK—well done!
England prohibits “breeding procedures which cause, or are likely to cause, suffering or injury to any of the animals concerned”. Defra claim Frankenchickens meet this standard and THLUK are challenging that decision in court.
Note that prohibiting breeding that causes suffering is different to encouraging breeding that lessens suffering, and that selective breeding is different to gene splicing, etc., which I think is what is typically meant by genetic modification.
Here’s the same search, plus The Human League:
Has anybody changed their behaviour after the animal welfare vs global health debate week? A month or so on, I’m curious if anybody is planning to donate differently, considering a career pivot, etc. If anybody doesn’t want to share publicly but would share privately, please feel free to message me.
Linking @Angelina Li’s post asking how people would change their behaviour, and tagging @Toby Tremlett🔹 who might have thought about tracking this.
Hey Michel! I really liked this post and I relate to “sitting in the same theater as friends from my everyday life yet watching a very different movie”. “No-one in my org puts money in their pension” by @tobyj captured the same feelings well.
Thanks, Abraham, I liked reading this! Good luck for an impactful decade to come
Super cool! I’ll preorder. Also, I’m sure Jeff won’t mind me flagging a similar upcoming book from Jonathan Birch, in case anybody is interested in reading both:
Can octopuses feel pain and pleasure?
What about crabs, shrimps, insects or spiders?
How do we tell whether a person unresponsive after severe brain injury might be suffering?
When does a fetus in the womb start to have conscious experiences?
Could there even be rudimentary feelings in miniature models of the human brain, grown from human stem cells?
… and what about AI?
These are questions about the edge of sentience, and they are subject to enormous, disorienting uncertainty. The stakes are immense, and neglecting the risks can have terrible costs.
We need to err on the side of caution, yet it’s often far from clear what ‘erring on the side of caution’ should mean in practice. When are we going too far? When are we not doing enough?
The Edge of Sentience presents a precautionary framework designed to help us reach ethically sound, evidence-based decisions despite our uncertainty.
Thanks for completing the consultation, and for your time assessment (I hope that helps others judge accurately!)
Ten minutes to speak up for ~4.5 million caged chickens
I agree almost entirely. I would only change “knowingly or not” to “knowingly”; there’s no argument from ignorance at this point.
I’m seeing commenters criticise this piece for factual errors (e.g. misidentifying Manifund as a prediction market) and I think The Guardian should issue corrections for those errors.
But I’m much more concerned about the racist ties:
One, Jonathan Anomaly, published a paper in 2018 entitled Defending Eugenics, which called for a “non-coercive” or “liberal eugenics” to “increase the prevalence of traits that promote individual and social welfare”. The publication triggered an open letter of protest by Australian academics to the journal that published the paper, and protests at the University of Pennsylvania when he commenced working there in 2019. (Anomaly now works at a private institution in Quito, Ecuador, and claims on his website that US universities have been “ideologically captured”.)
Another, Razib Khan, saw his contract as a New York Times opinion writer abruptly withdrawn just one day after his appointment had been announced, following a Gawker report that highlighted his contributions to outlets including the paleoconservative Taki’s Magazine and anti-immigrant website VDare.
The Michigan State University professor Stephen Hsu, another billed guest, resigned as vice-president of research there in 2020 after protests by the MSU Graduate Employees Union and the MSU student association accusing Hsu of promoting scientific racism.
Brian Chau, executive director of the “effective accelerationist” non-profit Alliance for the Future (AFF), was another billed guest. A report last month catalogued Chau’s long history of racist and sexist online commentary, including false claims about George Floyd, and the claim that the US is a “Black supremacist” country. “Effective accelerationists” argue that human problems are best solved by unrestricted technological development.
I’m unfamiliar with these people but I don’t like what I’m learning. Khan wrote a letter to “a white nationalist website” about “the threat of the United States becoming ‘more genetically and culturally Mexican’.” Chau believes “the narrative” around George Floyd’s death “was every bit as fake as an AI-generated video”. And Richard Hanania, also invited to Manifest, believes “we need more policing, incarceration and surveillance of black people.”
The response by a Manifest representative is also concerning:
“We were aware that some of these folks have expressed views considered controversial.”
He went on: “Some of these folks we’re bringing in because of their past experience with prediction markets (eg [Richard] Hanania has used them extensively and partnered with many prediction market platforms). Others we’re bringing in for their particular expertise (eg Brian Chau is participating in a debate on AI safety, related to his work at Alliance for the Future).”
I think “high decouplers” believe there is negligible risk in platforming intolerant people because rationalists can isolate their relevant thoughts (e.g. prediction markets) from their dangerous thoughts (e.g. there should be more incarceration of Black people).
But the poor quality of reasoning demonstrated in somebody’s more controversial thinking should reflect poorly on their general intellectual rigour. Do you really have a lot to learn from somebody who, like Chau, thinks the US is a “Black supremacist country” or is that person maybe just a controversialist?
And it seems disingenuous to suggest that rationalists aren’t interested in those controversial views. We know that rationalists are unusually and disturbingly pro-eugenics. And it’s hard to see it as a coincidence that this event attracted ~five racist public intellectuals.
Manifest’s representative also said:
“We did not invite them to give talks about race and IQ” and concluded: “Manifest has no specific views on eugenics or race & IQ.”
As with critiquing factual errors without engaging the central claims about racist ties, declining this opportunity to condemn scientific racism goes some way to validating the report’s argument: that rationalists have a blind spot on racism.
As an effective altruist, not a rationalist, I align instead with the Centre for Effective Altruism’s statement in response to Nick Bostrom’s email:
Effective altruism is based on the core belief that all people count equally. We unequivocally condemn Nick Bostrom’s recklessly flawed and reprehensible words. We reject this unacceptable racist language, and the callous discussion of ideas that can and have harmed Black people. It is fundamentally inconsistent with our mission of building an inclusive and welcoming community.
(I’m writing in a personal capacity)
I was surprised to learn from GFI’s 2023 State of Global Policy report that “Uruguay, through a quiet amendment to a budget bill passed in October, banned the “importation, manufacture and commercialization” of cultivated meat for human consumption in the country for a period of five years”.
My understanding is that Uruguay, Italy, Florida and Alabama now have cultivated meat bans, with Italy’s held up by the EU. I believe the Uruguayan ban is the only one with a sunset clause.
I think it’s worthwhile distinguishing between the demandingness objection as an argument against insect/worm/mite/nematodes’ interests mattering, and as an argument against them being sentient. I think you can make the first case but not the second.