I’m excited to be turning over the reins to Zach. I had the opportunity to see Zach in action at the Meta Coordination Forum earlier this year, and afterwards I sent Zach the following (edited) message:
(Low urgency) Hey, I have been going through my notes from MCF and just wanted to say that the brief moments I had of seeing you in action made me even more excited for you to lead CEA…
It was also cool seeing your leadership techniques to get people excited around specific projects: e.g. telling [person] that something has historically been his strength when motivating him to do more of it.
Lastly, it does feel like we are maybe entering a third wave of effective altruism, and the comments you made in our discussion about what principles-first EA should look like seemed true, more insightful than what most people (including myself) had to say, and like the kind of thing I would want the CEO of CEA to say
I thought that page was also from CEA. Are they written for different audiences?
In particular, I like the “Collaborative spirit: It’s often possible to achieve more by working together” principle that seems to be missing from the CEA page.
Thanks for reading closely, and for flagging this! While CEA is the owner of EA.org, the intro essay was drafted by a collaborative process including non-CEA staff, and the final version was written by 80k’s Ben Todd (more in the essay’s announcement here).
The discrepancy is tracking the reality that there is no consensus about how best to define EA, although I think the omission of collaborative spirit from the CEA page is an oversight and I expect we will edit it accordingly soon.
Quick followup to note that collaborative spirit is included among CEA’s Guiding Principles listed on the CEA site. Clearly it’s confusing—including to a member of CEA’s own staff like me! - that we refer to different things as ‘principles’ in different places, and that might be something we look to clarify if and when we revisit these pages as Zach Era CEA.
Thanks for the CEA link. I had read and reacted to that comment from Zach, but I was looking to understand the broader concept that sounded like it might be a pre existing term in the discourse
This is a good question. It is a pre-existing term (for example the EAIF uses it here) but I’m having difficulty finding a canonical definition.
The definition they use in that post is “focusing on this odd community of people who are willing to impartially improve the world as much as possible, without presupposing specific empirical beliefs about the world (like AGI timelines or shrimp sentience)” which seems close but not exactly the same as my definition. Maybe @Zachary Robinson can include a definition of the term in his forthcoming post.
Just wanted to quickly clarify that the entire wording of the EAIF “definition” was written by me, where I put in the level of care that I typically would for a phrase in an organizational blogpost: significant, but far from the level of precision that an important movement-wide phrase ought to have. I also meant more to gesture at the set of ideas that “Principles-Based EA” roughly points at, rather than to define them.
All this to say that I’d be glad if Zachary or others can come up with their own versions, and I’d mortified if something like my “definition” becomes canonical.
I’m excited to be turning over the reins to Zach. I had the opportunity to see Zach in action at the Meta Coordination Forum earlier this year, and afterwards I sent Zach the following (edited) message:
Welcome, Zach!
Where can I read more about the idea of ‘principles-first EA’?
Our (CEA’s) website has a page about core EA principles.
And note that Zach has said elsewhere he intends to write more about his views in due course.
I’m surprised these are not identical to the ones on this page https://www.effectivealtruism.org/articles/introduction-to-effective-altruism#what-principles-unite-effective-altruism (although they are very similar)
I thought that page was also from CEA. Are they written for different audiences?
In particular, I like the “Collaborative spirit: It’s often possible to achieve more by working together” principle that seems to be missing from the CEA page.
Thanks for reading closely, and for flagging this! While CEA is the owner of EA.org, the intro essay was drafted by a collaborative process including non-CEA staff, and the final version was written by 80k’s Ben Todd (more in the essay’s announcement here).
The discrepancy is tracking the reality that there is no consensus about how best to define EA, although I think the omission of collaborative spirit from the CEA page is an oversight and I expect we will edit it accordingly soon.
Quick followup to note that collaborative spirit is included among CEA’s Guiding Principles listed on the CEA site. Clearly it’s confusing—including to a member of CEA’s own staff like me! - that we refer to different things as ‘principles’ in different places, and that might be something we look to clarify if and when we revisit these pages as Zach Era CEA.
Thanks! It looks like the “Guiding Principles” page is older and seems to focus more on “altruism first” EA. There’s also “EA as a university” [...] a place for intellectual exploration, incredible research, and real-world impact and innovation, which I think is the most recent and also feels different, although it doesn’t talk explicitly about “principles”.
Thanks for the CEA link. I had read and reacted to that comment from Zach, but I was looking to understand the broader concept that sounded like it might be a pre existing term in the discourse
This is a good question. It is a pre-existing term (for example the EAIF uses it here) but I’m having difficulty finding a canonical definition.
The definition they use in that post is “focusing on this odd community of people who are willing to impartially improve the world as much as possible, without presupposing specific empirical beliefs about the world (like AGI timelines or shrimp sentience)” which seems close but not exactly the same as my definition. Maybe @Zachary Robinson can include a definition of the term in his forthcoming post.
Just wanted to quickly clarify that the entire wording of the EAIF “definition” was written by me, where I put in the level of care that I typically would for a phrase in an organizational blogpost: significant, but far from the level of precision that an important movement-wide phrase ought to have. I also meant more to gesture at the set of ideas that “Principles-Based EA” roughly points at, rather than to define them.
All this to say that I’d be glad if Zachary or others can come up with their own versions, and I’d mortified if something like my “definition” becomes canonical.