Charlotte Darnell
https://www.centreforeffectivealtruism.org/community-health/team
Charlotte Darnell
Karma: 361
Contact people for the EA community
I don’t have this fully worked out for myself yet, but here are some things I’ve been considering recently. They’re not exactly novel but might be helpful nonetheless.
1) Not having runway/savings has been really quite stressful/ inconvenient at times. I think there is some amount that does just seem robustly good to have. I don’t have a clear idea of exactly how much that is though. Maybe thinking through the specific scenarios that have either happened or I’m worried might happen may point me in the right direction of a figure.
2) I’ve really noticed the hedonic treadmill now that I (and my friends) earn a salary. I also expect the pressure to use money for things other than donating to only increase as I get older (more responsibilities, unexpected life events, social pressure etc.). By donating now, at the same time as I’m trying to build up savings, I feel like I’m locking it in as part of my identity and habits, rather than waiting and trusting a future me to donate, when in the future my goals might change.
3) For me at least, it doesn’t feel like I’m only weighing up savings and donating, it feels more like I’m weighing up—
donating (you could say ~investing in my values)
- investing financially in my future (savings)
- investing in other ways in my future (eg. getting fit, eating well, going to therapy, taking care of important relationships, trying to have experiences that help me grow and learn).
3) There is a chance though that money is disproportionately more useful sooner for the 3rd category—eg. getting help for (mental) health issues before they get worse, acquiring skills you can then use for longer, being able to do experiments that help you make life decisions. However, the benefit of acting sooner likely applies to savings and donating too, so I’m not too sure how to weigh them up.
4) If you’re waiting to donate while you build up savings, (or invest in other ways) I’d consider having a specific set goal/plan in advance. I have a (non-EA) friend to whom saving is really important. No matter how much he saves, though, it never feels ‘enough’ and he keeps moving his goalpost.
5) If I really sit with it, most of the things I think I need, I really don’t, but giving them all up would likely make me very sad. On the margin, however, I absolutely could (and should by my values) give more. Elliot recently wrote “Do what you can. No more. No less”. I personally need to do a big sit down and think hard about where the no more, no less, truly lands me.
I’m not super familiar with your work but I can imagine this is a great resource for lots of people, and I recognise that therapy or similar support can be really hard to access. I think it’s was worth noting though, that I’ve really valued having my main therapy and some of my support be outside of EA.
I think this actually allows me to look more honestly at my feelings and feel more psychological safety when exploring them. I do think the shared context of EA can be really helpful (I do seek support from EA friends about things) - but just wanted to note that there are pros and cons, particularly if you’re aiming to work on “deeper seated issues” which is quite a vulnerable spot to be in.
For those considering this, it might be worth taking a minute to check in with yourself about if you’d benefit more from the shared context this provides, or you’d benefit more from being able to talk about your hard stuff with people who you’re much, much less likely to cross paths with professionally.
You’ve probably already considered this, but there are lots of vegan UK facebook groups who I think would be interested in this, with some quite active members who might be interested in volunteering. Is there a plan for sharing in those sort of places? I’d be happy to post in some but also don’t know if you’ve got a more specific comms plan, or reasons you might not want that.
Thanks for taking the time to write this and be vulnerable despite your concerns (and the RSI!).
I definitely resonate with some of what you’ve written, and share some of your frustrations. I might expand my thoughts here or via DM in future if you’d be interested, but in the meantime, I just wanted to say that I’m really sorry it’s been a tough time.
I am glad to hear that you’ve had some good experiences along with the difficult ones (though this mixture of appreciation for and frustration with the EA community can be quite the emotional rollercoaster). I’m also glad you’re doing what feels right for you.
Thank you for all the work and effort you’ve put in. I (and I know others too) have really enjoyed learning about your projects and I’m excited to see what you work on going forward, even if it’s from a bit more of a distance. It’s been lovely getting to know you a little and my metaphorical door is open if you’d like to chat sometime in future.
[If there are concerns you’d like to talk to the Community Health Team about, you can contact us here.]
I enjoyed reading this, thanks!
This was great to hear about, thanks for writing it! The ‘likelihood to recommend’ scores are exciting, congratulations :))
Thanks for writing this Alix. Something I hadn’t been tracking much before this post was how events like EAGs and retreats might be especially tiring if you’re doing lots of 1:1s in a different language. I remember being surprised by just how tired I got spending all day in a different language when I worked in France, and can’t imagine how much that’s multiplied when discussing complicated EA topics and ideas.
Ah I really like the idea of adding languages to swapcard profiles—I’ll share this with the events team!
I enjoyed reading this and think past me would have found this quite helpful to read before attending a conference for the first time, so thank you!
Thank you so much for reaching out for support and advice on this. It sounds like such an emotionally hard situation, and I really hope things feel better soon for you.
If you’re currently feeling suicidal or feeling very down, I’d encourage contacting a suicide hotline and consider talking to a therapist if that’s an option available to you. Here’s an international list of helplines: https://www.iasp.info/resources/Crisis_Centres/ .
It’s worth bearing in mind that the EA approach is about doing the most good you can with the resources you’ve got. As much as it sucks, you can’t do things with resources you don’t have. Freedom to choose what you eat is a resource that people have or don’t have, in much the same way as they may have/not have money or time.
Additionally, while EAs often encourage having high altruistic standards, there are limits to this; it definitely shouldn’t mean taking your own life. As much as it sucks, sometimes the state of the world is that the reasonable or rational choice in a given situation means consuming animal products or things tested on animals—for example, vegans work very hard to avoid the consumption of animal products, but sometimes have to take medicine that isn’t vegan, and the vegan society endorses that:
“The definition of veganism recognises that it is not always possible or practicable to avoid animal use in a non-vegan world. Sometimes, you may have no alternative to medication manufactured using animal products. Even if other medications are available, they may be less effective, have more side effects or be unsuitable for your healthcare needs. While it can be upsetting to compromise our vegan beliefs, we encourage vegans to look after their health and that of others, enabling them to be effective advocates for veganism.”
I can’t even begin to imagine how frustrated and upset you may be feeling. It sounds like such a difficult situation. I really do agree with the other commenters, though, about how much impact you might be able to have later on, once you have a bit more freedom.
I’m not sure if this is helpful as an example—there may be many contextual things that feel too different, but just in case it’s helpful: I wasn’t allowed to be vegan or vegetarian growing up but became vegan at university and have been mostly following a vegan diet since. I’ve convinced a lot of my friends to try vegan food and several of them have massively reduced their meat consumption as a result. Many others eat vegan when I’m around, even if they don’t normally. I’m not sure, but this may even be a thing you can do subtly now - if it sounds possible in your context, you could try sometimes offering to cook something for your family or friends that happens to be vegan (eg. lentil dhal) and not emphasising the fact that it’s vegan.
As other commentators have said, there are so many potential ways you might be able to help animals in future, especially with a STEM background, and I feel excited about a world where there are people so passionate about animals fighting for animal welfare. The best advice I can give based on my own experience is to focus on things you can control, and think about the future—figure out what you might want to work on, and figure out where you might want to try and build knowledge or skills to work on improving animal welfare once you can.
So excited about these, and glad to see them shared. Thanks for all of your hard work Mila + team!
Thank you for the thoughts. My team was pretty uncertain about whether to post this, and I could have done some things better. It seems helpful to clarify some of my intentions behind the original post:
Various people had mentioned that they were concerned about this in casual conversation. It felt useful to link to a specific reference point for the already- existing discussion rather than have rumours escalate or warp.
Given Peter Singer is someone with a significant influence in EA, and with the context of recent events in our community, I expected many people in EA would want to be aware if concerns had been raised about him, provided they were appropriately hedged.
Given those conversations and considerations happening in private, making it public was the action that felt the most integrity-driven to me at the time.
I could have done better at framing the post. I do think it can be valuable from a community health perspective to link post to things of interest before we have all the facts in, but there’s a balance to get right here.
Linkpost—dawnwatch ‘Peter Singer is not Animal Liberation Now’
Thanks for your suggestion here — we currently have a ‘least valuable experience’ question in our post-event feedback form, but your suggestion is an interesting idea. We’re now discussing it internally. (For context, I work on the events team at CEA and have been the community health contact person at previous EAG/EAGx events.)
I think figuring out whether something is a serious enough issue to talk to the community health team about can feel hard for several reasons like those you’ve mentioned. In general, the more serious something is the more likely it is you should tell the community contact. Additionally, the more upset you are about the incident (even if it might not be perceived as serious by others) the more likely it is you should tell the community contact, especially if being upset is making it hard for you to participate in the event.
As you and other commenters have implied, we generally like to hear about incidents even if they seem minor, in order to keep an eye on patterns of behaviour. Sending a short text/whatsapp to the community contact number might be a low-cost way to let us know about things that feel minor. There are a variety of possible actions we may take depending on the severity of the incident(s) and other context. We’ve sometimes just made a note of the incident, and don’t act unless other complaints about the same person come up. We’ve had conversations like you’ve suggested, gently letting people know they’ve made an attendee uncomfortable. On the other end of the spectrum we’ve permanently banned people from our events for more serious incidents or repeated patterns of unacceptable behaviour. And there are various intermediary actions we’ve taken too.
Hi, I believe the Rotterdam team are processing the videos and getting permission from speakers at the moment. They should be up soon!
2022 EA conference talks are now live
EA Global 2023 applications are now open!
Thanks for your detailed comment! I work on the events team so I can add some info.
Yep, we broadly agree here. We’re keen to open and review applications earlier than we have been doing, for many of the reasons you mention. It’s something we’ve been actively working on for a while, but unfortunately we have been dealing with a variety of bottlenecks on this front. We have designed a new application system for EAG 2023, which will open very soon. It’s an application for all of the EAGs in 2023, rather than on a conference by conference basis. So, once people are accepted, they can then register (and plan/book travel for) any of the announced EAGs in 2023.EAGx admissions are done by their respective organising teams, as they are community hosted. CEA just supports them, so we can’t directly control their admissions turnaround, but we are making systems improvements that the EAGx teams can benefit from too. This will hopefully help somewhat!
This sounds really cool! I’d love to hear about what you end up doing.
Minor thought—It might be worth changing the title of this post. I initially clicked on this expecting someone looking for career advice, I wasn’t expecting someone generously offering so much of their time and expertise. I expect there might be a bunch of orgs or projects that don’t click on it because they don’t have specific career takes for others, but who would be interested or have ideas of other projects that could benefit from your help.