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Pop­u­la­tion ethics

TagLast edit: Aug 22, 2022, 7:51 PM by Leo

Population ethics is the branch of normative ethics that attempts to justify and articulate principles for making choices between alternatives involving different people. These differences can consist of changes either in the number of people affected or only in the identities of these people.

Further reading

Aird, Michael (2020) Collection of evidence about views on longtermism, time discounting, population ethics, significance of suffering vs happiness, etc. among non-EAs, Effective Altruism Forum, May 10.
Many additional resources with some relevance to this topic.

Arrhenius, Gustaf, Jesper Ryberg & Torbjörn Tännsjö (2006) The repugnant conclusion, Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, February 16 (updated 16 January 2017).

Chappell, Richard Y., Darius Meissner & William MacAskill (2022) Population ethics, An Introduction to Utilitarianism.

Greaves, Hilary (2017) Population axiology, Philosophy Compass, vol. 12, pp. 1–15.

Karnofsky, Holden (2022) Debating myself on whether “extra lives lived” are as good as “deaths prevented”, Cold Takes, March 29.
An engaging yet rigorous introduction to some of the key issues in population ethics in the form of an imaginary dialogue between a proponent and an opponent of total utilitarianism.

Related entries

axiology | ethics of existential risk | Jeff McMahan | Derek Parfit | person-affecting views | repugnant conclusion | total view

De­scrip­tive Pop­u­la­tion Ethics and Its Rele­vance for Cause Prioritization

David_AlthausApr 3, 2018, 1:31 PM
66 points
8 comments13 min readEA link

[Question] Why do you find the Repug­nant Con­clu­sion re­pug­nant?

Will BradshawDec 17, 2021, 10:00 AM
58 points
60 comments1 min readEA link

Cri­tique of MacAskill’s “Is It Good to Make Happy Peo­ple?”

Magnus VindingAug 23, 2022, 9:21 AM
223 points
115 comments8 min readEA link

Min­i­mal­ist ex­tended very re­pug­nant con­clu­sions are the least repugnant

Teo AjantaivalOct 24, 2022, 9:46 AM
78 points
0 comments15 min readEA link

Utili­tar­i­anism and the re­place­abil­ity of de­sires and attachments

MichaelStJulesJul 27, 2024, 1:57 AM
34 points
13 comments12 min readEA link

Ac­tu­al­ism, asym­me­try and extinction

MichaelStJulesJan 7, 2025, 4:02 PM
24 points
0 comments9 min readEA link

Teruji Thomas, ‘The Asym­me­try, Uncer­tainty, and the Long Term’

PabloNov 5, 2019, 8:24 PM
43 points
6 comments1 min readEA link
(globalprioritiesinstitute.org)

Against neu­tral­ity about cre­at­ing happy lives

Joe_CarlsmithMar 15, 2021, 1:54 AM
95 points
37 comments11 min readEA link

A longter­mist cri­tique of “The ex­pected value of ex­tinc­tion risk re­duc­tion is pos­i­tive”

Anthony DiGiovanniJul 1, 2021, 9:01 PM
139 points
10 comments32 min readEA link

New Book: “Min­i­mal­ist Ax­iolo­gies: Alter­na­tives to ‘Good Minus Bad’ Views of Value”

Teo AjantaivalJul 19, 2024, 1:00 PM
60 points
8 comments5 min readEA link

Crit­i­cal sum­mary of Meacham’s “Per­son-Affect­ing Views and Sat­u­rat­ing Coun­ter­part Re­la­tions”

Arden KoehlerJan 5, 2021, 2:18 AM
55 points
30 comments11 min readEA link

Defend­ing the Pro­cre­ation Asym­me­try with Con­di­tional Interests

MichaelStJulesOct 13, 2019, 6:49 PM
34 points
13 comments4 min readEA link

The psy­chol­ogy of pop­u­la­tion ethics

Lucius CaviolaAug 30, 2021, 5:33 PM
173 points
10 comments3 min readEA link

Min­i­mal­ist ax­iolo­gies and pos­i­tive lives

Teo AjantaivalNov 13, 2021, 10:57 AM
57 points
12 comments24 min readEA link

[Question] Why do EAs have chil­dren?

Luke FreemanMar 15, 2021, 3:17 AM
31 points
24 comments1 min readEA link

Per­son-af­fect­ing in­tu­itions can of­ten be money pumped

Rohin ShahJul 7, 2022, 12:23 PM
94 points
69 comments3 min readEA link

Repug­nance and replacement

MichaelStJulesApr 11, 2024, 2:40 AM
17 points
29 comments9 min readEA link

Spears & Bu­dolf­son, ‘Repug­nant con­clu­sions’

PabloApr 4, 2021, 4:09 PM
60 points
14 comments1 min readEA link
(doi.org)

Hilary Greaves: Repug­nant interventions

EA GlobalAug 28, 2015, 4:14 PM
9 points
0 comments1 min readEA link
(www.youtube.com)

Avoid­ing the Repug­nant Con­clu­sion is not nec­es­sary for pop­u­la­tion ethics: new many-au­thor col­lab­o­ra­tion.

deanspearsApr 14, 2021, 12:48 AM
114 points
16 comments1 min readEA link
(deanspears.medium.com)

Pop­u­la­tion Ethics Without Ax­iol­ogy: A Framework

Lukas_GloorAug 2, 2022, 3:59 PM
82 points
18 comments26 min readEA link

The prob­lem with per­son-af­fect­ing views

JackMAug 5, 2020, 6:37 PM
44 points
22 comments3 min readEA link

The Im­pos­si­bil­ity of a Satis­fac­tory Pop­u­la­tion Prospect Axiology

EJTMay 12, 2021, 3:35 PM
36 points
12 comments1 min readEA link
(link.springer.com)

The per­son-af­fect­ing value of ex­is­ten­tial risk reduction

Gregory Lewis🔸Apr 13, 2018, 1:44 AM
65 points
33 comments4 min readEA link

Con­di­tional in­ter­ests, asym­me­tries and EA priorities

MichaelStJulesOct 21, 2019, 6:13 AM
22 points
23 comments8 min readEA link

Stupid Rea­sons to Have More Kids

johnburidanApr 17, 2022, 8:00 PM
11 points
12 comments5 min readEA link

In­ter­gen­er­a­tional equity and in­finite-pop­u­la­tion ethics: a sur­vey by Mar­cus Pi­vato and Marc Fleurbaey

Jobst Heitzig (vodle.it)Mar 14, 2024, 1:02 PM
7 points
0 comments1 min readEA link
(papers.ssrn.com)

The prob­lem of pos­si­ble pop­u­la­tions: an­i­mal farm­ing, sus­tain­abil­ity, ex­tinc­tion and the re­pug­nant conclusion

StijnJul 6, 2021, 1:17 PM
7 points
9 comments16 min readEA link

On fu­ture peo­ple, look­ing back at 21st cen­tury longtermism

Joe_CarlsmithMar 22, 2021, 8:21 AM
102 points
13 comments12 min readEA link

Peter Singer on the 80K podcast

Jon_BeharDec 18, 2019, 5:17 PM
31 points
0 comments1 min readEA link
(80000hours.org)

EA read­ing list: pop­u­la­tion ethics, in­finite ethics, an­thropic ethics

richard_ngoAug 3, 2020, 9:22 AM
25 points
10 comments1 min readEA link

Puz­zles for Everyone

Richard Y Chappell🔸Sep 10, 2022, 2:11 AM
116 points
38 comments5 min readEA link
(rychappell.substack.com)

The Philan­thropist’s Paradox

MichaelPlantJun 24, 2017, 10:23 AM
2 points
15 comments11 min readEA link

The Long-Term Fu­ture: An At­ti­tude Survey

Aron_VallinderSep 16, 2019, 3:57 PM
62 points
15 comments8 min readEA link

Older peo­ple may place less moral value on the far future

SanjayOct 22, 2019, 2:47 PM
22 points
9 comments14 min readEA link

Han­dling Mo­ral Uncer­tainty with Aver­age vs. To­tal Utili­tar­i­anism: One Method That Ap­par­ently *Doesn’t* Work (But Seemed Like it Should)

Marcel DJan 5, 2023, 10:18 PM
10 points
0 comments8 min readEA link

Peace­ful­ness, non­vi­o­lence, and ex­pe­ri­en­tial­ist minimalism

Teo AjantaivalMay 23, 2022, 7:17 PM
62 points
14 comments29 min readEA link

Are there lives not worth liv­ing?

PofJan 13, 2023, 5:48 PM
7 points
2 comments1 min readEA link

Are You Sure You Want To Donate To The Against Malaria Foun­da­tion?

MichaelPlantDec 5, 2016, 6:57 PM
40 points
48 comments7 min readEA link

Is EA just about pop­u­la­tion growth?

LuceAlexisJan 17, 2021, 8:55 AM
6 points
10 comments5 min readEA link

Against Con­di­tional Beneficence

Richard Y Chappell🔸Nov 9, 2023, 4:55 PM
13 points
0 comments7 min readEA link
(rychappell.substack.com)

Philo­soph­i­cal con­sid­er­a­tions rele­vant to valu­ing con­tinued hu­man sur­vival: Con­cep­tual Anal­y­sis, Pop­u­la­tion Ax­iol­ogy, and De­ci­sion The­ory (An­dreas Mo­gensen)

Global Priorities InstituteNov 1, 2023, 12:10 PM
45 points
0 comments3 min readEA link

The asym­me­try and the far future

John G. HalsteadMar 9, 2017, 10:05 PM
11 points
14 comments6 min readEA link

What is a neu­tral life like?

JackMApr 16, 2022, 3:57 PM
42 points
10 comments6 min readEA link

New book — “Suffer­ing-Fo­cused Ethics: Defense and Im­pli­ca­tions”

Magnus VindingMay 31, 2020, 9:27 AM
105 points
20 comments3 min readEA link

An Is­sue with the Repug­nant Conclusion

matthewpDec 31, 2021, 12:48 PM
−1 points
6 comments2 min readEA link

Im­pos­ing a Lifestyle: A New Ar­gu­ment for Anti­na­tal­ism

OldphanAug 23, 2023, 10:23 PM
10 points
1 comment1 min readEA link
(www.cambridge.org)

Toby Ord’s The Scourge, Reviewed

ColdButtonIssuesAug 30, 2022, 9:01 PM
59 points
25 comments4 min readEA link

Pos­si­ble mis­con­cep­tions about (strong) longtermism

JackMMar 9, 2021, 5:58 PM
90 points
43 comments19 min readEA link

Com­plex­ity of value but not dis­value im­plies more fo­cus on s-risk. Mo­ral un­cer­tainty and prefer­ence util­i­tar­i­anism also do.

ChiFeb 13, 2024, 10:24 PM
95 points
7 comments2 min readEA link

New Ar­ti­cles on Utili­tar­i­anism.net: Pop­u­la­tion Ethics and The­o­ries of Well-Being

imp4rtial 🔸Aug 20, 2021, 2:38 PM
22 points
8 comments2 min readEA link

Will longter­mists self-efface

Noah ScalesAug 12, 2022, 2:32 AM
−7 points
23 comments6 min readEA link

Pro-na­tal­ist suc­cess would cause so much an­i­mal suffer­ing it is not even a net-pos­i­tive cause area

ben.smithDec 8, 2024, 6:17 PM
31 points
15 comments4 min readEA link

My favourite ar­gu­ments against per­son-af­fect­ing views

EJTApr 2, 2024, 10:57 AM
84 points
36 comments17 min readEA link

Global Pri­ori­ties In­sti­tute: Re­search Agenda

Aaron Gertler 🔸Jan 20, 2021, 8:09 PM
22 points
0 comments2 min readEA link
(globalprioritiesinstitute.org)

[Question] Time-av­er­age ver­sus In­di­vi­d­ual-av­er­age To­tal Utilitarianism

DavidmanheimSep 26, 2021, 7:05 AM
12 points
1 comment1 min readEA link

Tran­script of a talk on The non-iden­tity prob­lem by Derek Parfit at EAGxOxford 2016

jamesJun 20, 2022, 9:34 PM
29 points
4 comments20 min readEA link

A Case for Vol­un­tary Abor­tion Reduction

Ariel Simnegar 🔸Dec 20, 2022, 1:23 PM
39 points
150 comments13 min readEA link

The moral am­bi­guity of fish­ing on wild aquatic an­i­mal populations

MichaelStJulesMay 6, 2024, 11:03 PM
76 points
2 comments4 min readEA link

My per­sonal cruxes for fo­cus­ing on ex­is­ten­tial risks /​ longter­mism /​ any­thing other than just video games

MichaelA🔸Apr 13, 2021, 5:50 AM
55 points
28 comments3 min readEA link

Farmed an­i­mals may have pos­i­tive lives now or in a few decades?

Vasco Grilo🔸Oct 26, 2024, 9:18 AM
24 points
10 comments7 min readEA link

Sav­ing Lives vs Creat­ing Lives

Richard Y Chappell🔸Dec 15, 2022, 12:32 AM
45 points
18 comments5 min readEA link
(rychappell.substack.com)

The Repug­nant Con­clu­sion Isn’t

AppliedDivinityStudiesAug 23, 2022, 8:09 AM
54 points
24 comments2 min readEA link

Paper sum­mary: Do not go gen­tle: why the Asym­me­try does not sup­port anti-na­tal­ism (An­dreas Mo­gensen)

Global Priorities InstituteDec 20, 2022, 11:00 AM
21 points
2 comments5 min readEA link

Win­ners of the EA Crit­i­cism and Red Team­ing Contest

LizkaOct 1, 2022, 1:50 AM
226 points
41 comments19 min readEA link

Why I am prob­a­bly not a longtermist

Denise_MelchinSep 23, 2021, 5:24 PM
255 points
49 comments8 min readEA link

Shar­ing the World with Digi­tal Minds

Aaron Gertler 🔸Dec 1, 2020, 8:00 AM
12 points
1 comment1 min readEA link
(www.nickbostrom.com)

Ste­fan Schu­bert: Psy­chol­ogy of Ex­is­ten­tial Risk and Longtermism

EA GlobalMar 25, 2019, 2:45 PM
34 points
4 comments11 min readEA link
(www.youtube.com)

A Fis­sion Prob­lem for Per­son-Affect­ing Views (Elliott Thorn­ley)

Global Priorities InstituteNov 7, 2024, 3:01 PM
20 points
2 comments3 min readEA link

What We Owe the Past

AustinMay 5, 2022, 12:06 PM
56 points
19 comments5 min readEA link

A “Solip­sis­tic” Repug­nant Conclusion

RamiroJul 21, 2022, 4:06 PM
13 points
0 comments6 min readEA link

Shelly Ka­gan—read­ings for Ethics and the Fu­ture sem­i­nar (spring 2021)

jamesJun 29, 2021, 9:59 AM
91 points
7 comments5 min readEA link
(docs.google.com)

Be­ware eth­i­cal sys­tems with­out re­pug­nant conclusions

Ezra NewmanAug 2, 2022, 4:47 PM
12 points
2 comments1 min readEA link

Con­fused about “mak­ing peo­ple happy” vs. “mak­ing happy peo­ple”

tobiasleenaertJul 16, 2022, 3:07 PM
69 points
47 comments1 min readEA link

Ben Grodeck: Co­op­er­at­ing with fu­ture gen­er­a­tions — an ex­per­i­men­tal investigation

EA GlobalFeb 21, 2020, 3:28 PM
17 points
0 comments14 min readEA link
(www.youtube.com)

A sim­ple ar­gu­ment for the bad­ness of hu­man extinction

Matthew RendallApr 17, 2024, 10:35 AM
4 points
14 comments2 min readEA link

Biorisk is smaller in scale than farmed an­i­mal welfare

OGTutzauer🔸Feb 6, 2025, 10:26 AM
36 points
5 comments3 min readEA link

QB: How Much do Fu­ture Gen­er­a­tions Mat­ter?

Richard Y Chappell🔸Oct 18, 2024, 3:22 PM
26 points
2 comments5 min readEA link
(www.goodthoughts.blog)

Abun­dance Es­ti­mates of Three Wild Populations

Rethink PrioritiesOct 28, 2024, 8:26 PM
62 points
0 comments3 min readEA link
(rethinkpriorities.org)

Should Effec­tive Altru­ists Have Kids?

Nicholas DeckerJan 9, 2025, 6:20 PM
−5 points
1 comment1 min readEA link
(nicholasdecker.substack.com)

Con­fi­dence in the premises of the Repug­nant Con­clu­sion—re­sults from a small survey

Vasco Grilo🔸Oct 8, 2022, 9:08 PM
19 points
2 comments1 min readEA link

The end of eco­nomic growth? Un­in­tended con­se­quences of a de­clin­ing population

Global Priorities InstituteSep 30, 2020, 1:29 PM
5 points
0 comments3 min readEA link
(globalprioritiesinstitute.org)

The Planet of You: A Thought Ex­per­i­ment on Wel­lbe­ing Tradeoffs

NunikJan 13, 2025, 1:39 PM
5 points
1 comment1 min readEA link

Are fish­ing and agri­cul­ture bad for an­i­mals?

StijnNov 7, 2024, 1:47 PM
16 points
2 comments6 min readEA link

Ex­plor­ing a Log­a­r­ith­mic Tol­er­ance of Suffering

David ReberApr 12, 2021, 1:39 AM
10 points
3 comments2 min readEA link

Talk - ‘Car­ing for the Far Fu­ture’

YadavDec 9, 2022, 4:58 PM
13 points
0 comments1 min readEA link
(youtu.be)

Some solu­tions to util­i­tar­ian problems

StijnJul 14, 2019, 10:04 AM
4 points
5 comments1 min readEA link

Linkpost for var­i­ous re­cent es­says on suffer­ing-fo­cused ethics, pri­ori­ties, and more

Magnus VindingSep 28, 2022, 8:58 AM
87 points
0 comments5 min readEA link
(centerforreducingsuffering.org)

Against pop­u­la­tion ethics

jasoncrawfordAug 16, 2022, 5:21 AM
7 points
21 comments3 min readEA link
(www.lesswrong.com)

The stan­dard per­son-af­fect­ing view doesn’t solve the Repug­nant Con­clu­sion.

GilAug 23, 2022, 7:58 PM
21 points
6 comments1 min readEA link

Ex­pected value the­ory is fa­nat­i­cal, but that’s a good thing

HaydenWSep 21, 2020, 8:48 AM
57 points
20 comments5 min readEA link

Meta-Prefer­ence Utilitarianism

Bob Jacobs 🔸Feb 5, 2020, 7:14 PM
10 points
2 comments1 min readEA link

[Question] Why do so few EAs and Ra­tion­al­ists have chil­dren?

Milan GriffesMar 14, 2021, 5:05 AM
9 points
80 comments1 min readEA link

some con­cerns with clas­si­cal utilitarianism

nilNov 14, 2020, 9:29 AM
32 points
17 comments19 min readEA link

Com­mon-sense cases where “hy­po­thet­i­cal fu­ture peo­ple” matter

tlevinAug 12, 2022, 2:05 PM
107 points
21 comments4 min readEA link

Weighted wellbe­ing pop­u­la­tion theory

brb243Nov 3, 2021, 3:01 AM
2 points
2 comments6 min readEA link

Should effec­tive al­tru­ists have chil­dren?

Jeffray_BehrNov 14, 2020, 11:53 PM
20 points
6 comments10 min readEA link

Free-Rang­ing Dog Welfare in In­dia as a Cause Area

Akash KulgodAug 8, 2022, 2:53 PM
13 points
5 comments8 min readEA link

What is your con­fi­dence in the premises of the Repug­nant Con­clu­sion?

Vasco Grilo🔸Sep 20, 2022, 4:30 PM
16 points
11 comments3 min readEA link

[Question] How can I ap­ply per­son-af­fect­ing views to Effec­tive Altru­ism?

The_Lord's_Servant_280Apr 29, 2020, 4:57 AM
19 points
21 comments1 min readEA link

Do not go gen­tle: why the Asym­me­try does not sup­port anti-natalism

Global Priorities InstituteApr 30, 2021, 1:26 PM
4 points
0 comments2 min readEA link

The asym­me­try, un­cer­tainty, and the long term

Global Priorities InstituteSep 30, 2019, 1:37 PM
13 points
0 comments4 min readEA link
(globalprioritiesinstitute.org)

I Have A New Paper Out Ar­gu­ing Against The Asym­me­try And For The Ex­is­tence of Happy Peo­ple Be­ing Very Good

OmnizoidNov 21, 2024, 5:19 PM
7 points
12 comments9 min readEA link

Pod­cast: Krister Bykvist on moral un­cer­tainty, ra­tio­nal­ity, metaethics, AI and fu­ture pop­u­la­tions

Gus DockerOct 21, 2021, 3:17 PM
8 points
0 comments1 min readEA link
(www.utilitarianpodcast.com)

Get­ting on a differ­ent train: can Effec­tive Altru­ism avoid col­laps­ing into ab­sur­dity?

Peter McLaughlinOct 7, 2022, 10:52 AM
187 points
61 comments18 min readEA link

Cal­ibra­tion dilem­mas in the ethics of distribution

Global Priorities InstituteAug 1, 2021, 1:12 PM
8 points
0 comments4 min readEA link
(globalprioritiesinstitute.org)

The re­pug­nant con­clu­sion is not a prob­lem for the to­tal view

Luca Stocco🔸Aug 6, 2022, 2:38 PM
30 points
11 comments7 min readEA link

In­ter­gen­er­a­tional equity un­der catas­trophic cli­mate change

Global Priorities InstituteOct 31, 2017, 1:33 PM
3 points
0 comments3 min readEA link
(globalprioritiesinstitute.org)

A rel­a­tively athe­o­ret­i­cal per­spec­tive on as­tro­nom­i­cal waste

Nick_BecksteadAug 6, 2014, 12:55 AM
9 points
8 comments8 min readEA link

The Wages of North-At­lantic Bias

Sach WryAug 19, 2022, 12:34 PM
8 points
2 comments17 min readEA link

[3-hour pod­cast] Michael Hue­mer on episte­mol­ogy, metaethics, EA, util­i­tar­i­anism and in­finite ethics

Gus DockerMar 27, 2021, 9:04 AM
30 points
2 comments1 min readEA link

Which an­i­mals are most af­fected by fish­ing?

MichaelStJulesNov 25, 2024, 5:39 AM
51 points
2 comments2 min readEA link

A cri­tique of strong longtermism

Pablo RosadoAug 28, 2022, 7:33 PM
15 points
11 comments14 min readEA link

Is the rea­son­ing of the Repug­nant Con­clu­sion valid?

AdithyaApr 21, 2022, 11:33 PM
3 points
16 comments5 min readEA link

[Question] How do most util­i­tar­i­ans feel about “re­place­ment” thought ex­per­i­ments?

richard_ngoSep 6, 2019, 11:14 AM
34 points
41 comments1 min readEA link

St. Peters­burg De­mon – a thought ex­per­i­ment that makes me doubt Longter­mism

wuschelMay 23, 2022, 11:49 AM
48 points
39 comments2 min readEA link

Timeline Utilitarianism

Bob Jacobs 🔸Oct 9, 2020, 8:12 PM
15 points
11 comments2 min readEA link

Nar­ra­tion: “Against neu­tral­ity about cre­at­ing happy lives”

D0TheMathJul 10, 2021, 7:13 PM
12 points
1 comment1 min readEA link
(anchor.fm)

Jane English on Rawls and du­ties to fu­ture generations

William D'AlessandroNov 6, 2022, 2:25 PM
12 points
3 comments6 min readEA link

GiveWell’s Char­ity Recom­men­da­tions Re­quire Tak­ing a Con­tro­ver­sial Stance on Pop­u­la­tion Ethics

MichaelDickensMay 17, 2016, 1:51 AM
30 points
52 comments8 min readEA link

Non-ad­di­tive ax­iolo­gies in large worlds

Global Priorities InstituteAug 31, 2020, 1:30 PM
16 points
0 comments7 min readEA link
(globalprioritiesinstitute.org)

Po­ten­tial Fu­ture People

TeddyWJan 8, 2023, 5:20 PM
11 points
6 comments1 min readEA link

Aging re­search and pop­u­la­tion ethics

Emanuele_AscaniApr 28, 2019, 7:20 AM
25 points
11 comments6 min readEA link

My (Lazy) Longter­mism FAQ

Devin KalishOct 24, 2022, 4:44 PM
30 points
6 comments27 min readEA link

[Question] Which Effec­tive Altru­ism groups are ad­dress­ing the is­sue of fer­til­ity rates?

MysteryMeatOct 6, 2023, 1:09 PM
−18 points
19 comments1 min readEA link

[Question] Chil­dren in Low-In­come Countries

Noah BirnbaumDec 12, 2024, 5:45 PM
2 points
3 comments1 min readEA link

[Opz­ionale] Perché prob­a­bil­mente non sono una lungoterminista

EA ItalyJan 17, 2023, 6:12 PM
1 point
0 comments8 min readEA link
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