I came across this extract from John Stuart Mill’s autobiography on his experience of a period when he became depressed and lost motivation in his goal of improving society. It sounded similar to what I hear from time to time of EAs finding it difficult to maintain motivation and happiness alongside altruism, and thought some choice quotes would be interesting to share. Mill’s solution was finding pleasure in other pursuits, particularly poetry.
Mill writes that his episode started in 1826, when he was 20 years old—but he had already been a keen utilitarian for 5 years and had been working for 3 years by this time, so was perhaps at a development point that not many would reach before they were into their early careers in the modern day.
From the winter of 1821, when I first read Bentham...I had what might truly be called an object in life; to be a reformer of the world. My conception of my own happiness was entirely identified with this object...This did very well for several years
But the time came when I awakened from this as from a dream. It was in the autumn of 1826. I was in a dull state of nerves...unsusceptible to enjoyment or pleasurable excitement...In this frame of mind it occurred to me to put the question directly to myself: “Suppose that all your objects in life were realized; that all the changes in institutions and opinions which you are looking forward to, could be completely effected at this very instant: would this be a great joy and happiness to you?” And an irrepressible self-consciousness distinctly answered, “No!” At this my heart sank within me: the whole foundation on which my life was constructed fell down...I seemed to have nothing left to live for.
For some months the cloud seemed to grow thicker and thicker...I became persuaded, that my love of mankind, and of excellence for its own sake, had worn itself out.
I frequently asked myself, if I could, or if I was bound to go on living, when life must be passed in this manner. I generally answered to myself that I did not think I could possibly bear it beyond a year. When, however, not more than half that duration of time had elapsed, a small ray of light broke in upon my gloom. I was reading, accidentally, Marmontel’s Mémoires, and came to the passage which relates his father’s death...A vivid conception of the scene and its feelings came over me, and I was moved to tears. From this moment my burden grew lighter.
I gradually found that the ordinary incidents of life could again give me some pleasure...and that there was, once more, excitement, though of a moderate, kind, in exerting myself for my opinions, and for the public good. Thus the cloud gradually drew off, and I again enjoyed life; and though I had several relapses, some of which lasted many months, I never again was as miserable as I had been.
The experiences of this period...led me to adopt a theory of life, very unlike that on which I had before I acted...Those only are happy (I thought) who have their minds fixed on some object other than their own happiness...followed not as a means, but as itself an ideal end.
This state of my thoughts and feelings made the fact of my reading Wordsworth for the first time (in the autumn of 1828), an important event of my life...[his poems] proved to be the precise thing for my mental wants at that particular juncture.
The result was that I gradually, but completely, emerged from my habitual depression, and was never again subject to it
Mill’s point that happiness might derive from having intrinsic goals other than happiness is interesting; I do find it hard to imagine having this feeling though:
In this frame of mind it occurred to me to put the question directly to myself: “Suppose that all your objects in life were realized; that all the changes in institutions and opinions which you are looking forward to, could be completely effected at this very instant: would this be a great joy and happiness to you?” And an irrepressible self-consciousness distinctly answered, “No!”
I personally am quite confident I would experience “a great joy and happiness” if some reform happened e.g. factory farming ended at this moment, and I find it hard to imagine this not being the case. But as you suggest, this may be more likely to occur at a certain “development point” I’ve not reached yet unlike Mill.
Nor has it ever been the case for me that “My conception of my own happiness was entirely identified with this object [of being a reformer of the world]”. Though I do often wish, on a meta-cognitive level, that my happiness (which seems like almost the same thing as my “conception of my own happiness”) was much further in that direction, because then I would work much harder on doing good, even if burnout like this becomes a bit more of a risk.
Well, everyone will have their own emotional journey—not everyone with motivations to do good will have an experience like Mill’s! But the point to not make improving social welfare the sole target and to have alternative sources of satisfaction seems to me quite common in discussions around EA and mental health, at least for those who do have difficulties.
Mill was working as a colonial administrator in the British East India Company at this point in his life, right? Could there have been a role for cognitive dissonance in driving his depression?
I guess it’s hard to know without being in Mill’s head. Though from what I’ve read it doesn’t sound like he ever really wavered from favouring Britain having India as a colony.
When thinking about whether to donate to Helen Keller International’s Vitamin A supplementation program, I wondered whether this is problematic for animal welfare, since Vit A is usually derived from animal sources as I understand it. So I asked HKI and they said their Vit A is chemically synthesised without animal origin, though their capsules do contain gelatin sourced from cattle. My perception is that the use of gelatin wouldn’t be expected to contribute a lot to animal welfare problems (though it might matter for people who never want to fund purchasing of animal products). I just thought I’d share this in case anyone else wondered.
What good solutions are there for EAs leaving money to charity in wills, in terms of getting them legally correct but not incurring large costs?
I’ve found this 2014 forum post that looks to have good info but many of the links no longer work—for example, it has a broken link to a form for getting a free will—does a resource like that still exist somewhere?
There’s also the GWWC bequests page. When I tried their “tool”, it directed me to an organisation called FareWill—has anyone used them and found it to give a good result?
I get the impression that the low-cost will services out there are based on templates for leaving assets to family and friends and aren’t so well suited to having charities as the main beneficiaries—in particular, including clauses for what to do if the charities no longer exist and some broader instruction needs to be given (I tried freewills.co.uk, but it didn’t produce something suitable). Has anyone found a will-writing service that worked well at a reasonable cost? Or is using a solicitor the recommended way in these cases, and am I wrong to think that would cost hundreds of pounds? [Edit to add—I live in England, so info relevant for there is particularly welcome.]
Edit to add some keywords for searching, as someone pointed out to me that searching for “will” brings up lots of other things!: testament, writing will, leave money to charity.
Normally I’d recommend freewill.com for this (which is designed with charitable donation as a central use case), but I see now it’s only for US-based assets
I thought I’d follow up on how I wrote a will leaving money to EA charities, following my previous question about it here. I ended up drafting a will myself and haven’t yet had it checked by a solicitor. I’ve gone down this route as I’m still youngish and so having some probability of the will failing does not seem like something worth spending hundreds of pounds to avoid at present—if I were 20 years older, I may have considered that worth it. For context I’m resident in England, and these steps are not necessarily good to follow in other countries—I can’t say.
My process was to firstly get a free draft will from www.freewills.co.uk . I copied the text to a document I could edit and set out the clauses specifying the distribution of the estate, using wording from https://www.givewell.org/legacy-giving and https://www.givingwhatwecan.org/get-involved/bequests, and including some extra wording about cause areas to allocate the bequests to, which I checked with GiveWell and GWWC beforehand. I also added sub-clauses about what to do if these charities no longer exist (just general instructions to say my Trustees should use their judgement and about how they could identify charities in line with my wishes, with a couple of examples—if GiveWell or GWWC did cease existing, I intend to update my will, so these clauses should only matter for a fairly narrow window of time and so super high-quality wording doesn’t seem needed).
Following this previous Forum post, I added the following clause after the clauses setting out the bequests as an extra failsafe:
But if the trusts hereinbefore declared shall fail or determine then and in that event my Trustees shall stand possessed of the said residue of my estate UPON TRUST to transfer pay or apply the same to or for such exclusively charitable institution or purpose or exclusively charitable institutions or purposes and if more than one in such proportions as my Trustees may in their absolute discretion select.
I came across this extract from John Stuart Mill’s autobiography on his experience of a period when he became depressed and lost motivation in his goal of improving society. It sounded similar to what I hear from time to time of EAs finding it difficult to maintain motivation and happiness alongside altruism, and thought some choice quotes would be interesting to share. Mill’s solution was finding pleasure in other pursuits, particularly poetry.
Mill writes that his episode started in 1826, when he was 20 years old—but he had already been a keen utilitarian for 5 years and had been working for 3 years by this time, so was perhaps at a development point that not many would reach before they were into their early careers in the modern day.
Mill’s point that happiness might derive from having intrinsic goals other than happiness is interesting; I do find it hard to imagine having this feeling though:
I personally am quite confident I would experience “a great joy and happiness” if some reform happened e.g. factory farming ended at this moment, and I find it hard to imagine this not being the case. But as you suggest, this may be more likely to occur at a certain “development point” I’ve not reached yet unlike Mill.
Nor has it ever been the case for me that “My conception of my own happiness was entirely identified with this object [of being a reformer of the world]”. Though I do often wish, on a meta-cognitive level, that my happiness (which seems like almost the same thing as my “conception of my own happiness”) was much further in that direction, because then I would work much harder on doing good, even if burnout like this becomes a bit more of a risk.
Well, everyone will have their own emotional journey—not everyone with motivations to do good will have an experience like Mill’s! But the point to not make improving social welfare the sole target and to have alternative sources of satisfaction seems to me quite common in discussions around EA and mental health, at least for those who do have difficulties.
Mill was working as a colonial administrator in the British East India Company at this point in his life, right? Could there have been a role for cognitive dissonance in driving his depression?
I guess it’s hard to know without being in Mill’s head. Though from what I’ve read it doesn’t sound like he ever really wavered from favouring Britain having India as a colony.
When thinking about whether to donate to Helen Keller International’s Vitamin A supplementation program, I wondered whether this is problematic for animal welfare, since Vit A is usually derived from animal sources as I understand it. So I asked HKI and they said their Vit A is chemically synthesised without animal origin, though their capsules do contain gelatin sourced from cattle. My perception is that the use of gelatin wouldn’t be expected to contribute a lot to animal welfare problems (though it might matter for people who never want to fund purchasing of animal products). I just thought I’d share this in case anyone else wondered.
What good solutions are there for EAs leaving money to charity in wills, in terms of getting them legally correct but not incurring large costs?
I’ve found this 2014 forum post that looks to have good info but many of the links no longer work—for example, it has a broken link to a form for getting a free will—does a resource like that still exist somewhere?
There’s also the GWWC bequests page. When I tried their “tool”, it directed me to an organisation called FareWill—has anyone used them and found it to give a good result?
I get the impression that the low-cost will services out there are based on templates for leaving assets to family and friends and aren’t so well suited to having charities as the main beneficiaries—in particular, including clauses for what to do if the charities no longer exist and some broader instruction needs to be given (I tried freewills.co.uk, but it didn’t produce something suitable). Has anyone found a will-writing service that worked well at a reasonable cost? Or is using a solicitor the recommended way in these cases, and am I wrong to think that would cost hundreds of pounds? [Edit to add—I live in England, so info relevant for there is particularly welcome.]
Edit to add some keywords for searching, as someone pointed out to me that searching for “will” brings up lots of other things!: testament, writing will, leave money to charity.
Normally I’d recommend freewill.com for this (which is designed with charitable donation as a central use case), but I see now it’s only for US-based assets
Also seeking conciser templates. Dozen page will templates feel dramatic for young people and make me delay the process to not raise concerns
I thought I’d follow up on how I wrote a will leaving money to EA charities, following my previous question about it here. I ended up drafting a will myself and haven’t yet had it checked by a solicitor. I’ve gone down this route as I’m still youngish and so having some probability of the will failing does not seem like something worth spending hundreds of pounds to avoid at present—if I were 20 years older, I may have considered that worth it. For context I’m resident in England, and these steps are not necessarily good to follow in other countries—I can’t say.
My process was to firstly get a free draft will from www.freewills.co.uk . I copied the text to a document I could edit and set out the clauses specifying the distribution of the estate, using wording from https://www.givewell.org/legacy-giving and https://www.givingwhatwecan.org/get-involved/bequests, and including some extra wording about cause areas to allocate the bequests to, which I checked with GiveWell and GWWC beforehand. I also added sub-clauses about what to do if these charities no longer exist (just general instructions to say my Trustees should use their judgement and about how they could identify charities in line with my wishes, with a couple of examples—if GiveWell or GWWC did cease existing, I intend to update my will, so these clauses should only matter for a fairly narrow window of time and so super high-quality wording doesn’t seem needed).
Following this previous Forum post, I added the following clause after the clauses setting out the bequests as an extra failsafe:
Then I got it signed and witnessed. See https://www.gov.uk/make-will/make-sure-your-will-is-legal .
Keywords to aide searching, as searching for “will” brings up lots of other things!: testament, writing will, leave money to charity